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hi I'm Yvette Dawn's from ah aka the

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sigh babe and you're listening to me on

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the sceptic zone welcome to the skipped

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exam the podcast from Australia for

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science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 522 for the 21st of

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October 2018 richardsaunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia lightning and

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thunder and rain and hail and cats and

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dogs and puddles and everything last

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week has been wet but it did not oh no

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it did not dampen the skeptic on last

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weekend in fact the way that was okay

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it's sort of rained a little bit and

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then it was sort of okay what a huge

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success

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skeptic on was the the the positive

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comments for organizing that and putting

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that together and bringing out those

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special guests flowing back to the

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Australian skeptics have been just

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terrific it's a very nice compliments

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coming back to me thank you very much I

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gave a couple of presentations more

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about that in the coming weeks in fact

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we're gonna kick off today with a report

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from a nod at skeptical trivia which was

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the kickoff event the leading event for

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skeptic on 2018 oh wow that was fun that

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was fun really lots of people playing

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trivia and Maynard tonight running

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around at the pub with his microphone

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chats - skeptic zone reporter mandy lean

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Noble one of the vice presidents of

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Australian skeptics joke Ben amou former

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skeptic zone reporter Beth Darlington

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from access paranormal who was a guest

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of the convention another guest dr. sue

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Blackmore was there Kirsten banks yet

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another guest and dr. Pamela gay all

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these people were rubbing shoulders at

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the trivia night then after that I read

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out the winners of the Australian

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skeptics annual awards including the

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bent spoon award and the inaugural Barry

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Williams award for skeptical journalism

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now of course Barry Williams was a

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longtime member of the Australian

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skeptics a former president and editor

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of the skeptic magazine who sadly died

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in January this year and we decided to

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have an

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ward in his honor now it's giving out no

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secrets to say that the journalist Jane

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Hansen won the award and following the

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the reading of the report about the

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awards may not interviews Jane Hansen on

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today's show

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then it's the first interview from

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skeptic on itself with dr. Kyle Cruz on

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whiskey and dr. Carl tells may not how

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to handle all those awkward questions at

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dinner parties and around off the show

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no may not never never takes a break

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these microphones always by his side

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in fact Maynard and I went to the book

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launch of the book by David Rosenberg

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about Pine Gap because this has just

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been released as a miniseries here in

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Australia and of course Pine Gap which

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is the joint intelligence gathering

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facility in Australia between the United

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States and Australia it's of great

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interest to conspiracy theorists who

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think no end of things are going on

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there from aliens being bred to secret

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well obviously secrets but they love it

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it's sort of like the Australia

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Australian version of area 51 but what a

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fun time that was to attend a book

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launch have a glass of champagne and a

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few cheese biscuits and listen to David

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Rosenberg now before we get stuck into

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the show one of the many highlights for

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me while at the convention was on the

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Saturday evening pre-dinner drinks I

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arranged with my friends at the ESP

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podcast to do a live video hookup at two

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QED in Manchester

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so why people were lined up to register

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to get into QED people in Australia were

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milling around having pre-dinner drinks

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and I was running around with my iPad

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with the video on Qantas Burkman work

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from the ESP was running around with his

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phone I think with the video on so folks

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in Sydney were able to chat and wave to

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folks in Manchester at both conventions

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that was a lot of fun and thank you to

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pontus for helping

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put all that together but now it's time

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for me to run downstairs and inspired by

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Yvette dancer on the sigh babe have a

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nice piece of sushi while I do that I

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hope you enjoy the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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years may not spooky action at the

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distance it's the beginning of a weekend

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of huffing and puffing and rushing and

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crushing and walking around as the

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biggest skeptical event on the national

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calendar takes place it's skeptic on

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Sydney that's right but skeptics from

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all over the world and all over the

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bathroom will be coming to see what's

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going on and we're having our first

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event for the whole thing this is

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usually the night that's the biggest one

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last year who could forget we had the

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guys from cognitive dissidence on the

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scathing atheist on is a huge night and

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was absolutely packed so that's why

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we're doing two levels of the

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meet-and-greet which is the Occidental

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hotel where we normally have the the

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mighty skeptics in the pub so what we're

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going to be doing tonight is on this

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first level where I am there's gonna be

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a trivia contest and the level above is

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where the hardcore drinkers will be and

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people will sort of oscillate between

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the two like the use of The Skeptical

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word there oscillate and of course a new

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world I've discovered which I'm really

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getting into nimman vidiian we'll find

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out what that is later you name them

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Gideon's you cuz you hang around the bar

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and who should we bump into who we got

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here okay Mandy how do you feel what

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what is the big what it's a hot tip for

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this weekend as far as the skeptical

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thing what are you here to see probably

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looking forward to Richard Saunders

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doing his talk he still makes it all up

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you know

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I've no doubt and are you doing a talk

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this weekend no I'm one that got you

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here what didn't I do it well I came on

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my own steam this year and I'm looking

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forward to having to break it okay and

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now you're hanging around these

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skeptical foyer out the front where the

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thing is spending a week in amounts of

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like-minded people with some interesting

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debate yes yes people who are interested

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in having conversations about skeptical

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things sometimes are short on the ground

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out there sometime thank you oh look

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there's race many special guests have

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flown in from all over the country

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mothers people would be Joe great to

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have you here from Melbourne I'm a nod

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nice to see that fabulous suit look this

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was given to me by Jim Ferguson you you

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would have you would have seen this suit

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on don't leave home without your

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toothbrush okay the only two remaining

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suits that are any good are the red one

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and the blue one and you gave them both

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to me

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I remember that suit actually yes this

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suit is giving away prizes but not

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tonight the skeptic there's Richard said

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there's a cash prize for trivia but he

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didn't say how much I'm saying it's a

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lazy 5 knowing the skeptics and so

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what's the big skeptical issue that's

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been burning your butt off over the past

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year since we last spoke to you probably

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really bothering me probably the last

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time I spoke to you I was still you know

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I work in cynical research I remember

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giving you a prize or something when I

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hosted a dinner last year didn't you win

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something skeptical or you came up to

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speak was like hey no I came out a prize

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oh okay I haven't won any prizes

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although I have to give them out to

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other people know the thing that's

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really bothering me at the moment is

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cancer patients being taken advantage of

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by various proponents of dubious

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therapies in Australia our regulations

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are a bit tighter so are they going

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overseas to do this well they're

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slipping between the cracks of our

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regulations here

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they ask some look I think they still

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very much are going overseas so you know

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we still see patients going over to

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Texas or to Mexico and and so on but the

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sort of thing I'm seeing more of it's

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not necessarily you know people going

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off and having some you know alternative

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therapy outside of oncology I'm talking

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about people who are you know

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potentially still having conventional

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science based treatments but who are

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then going off and having sort of

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supportive treatments from naturopaths

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or you're going to go into clinics who

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are taking advantage of their illness

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not necessarily offering to directly

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cure them but you know selling them all

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manner of supplements and you know

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offering them things that that really

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kind of don't make sense in terms of the

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disease they have and confusing them the

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thing the thing that I'm incredibly

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passionate about is actually about

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health information it's about how we

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educate people so that they understand

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what's happening to them so that they

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are better able to kind of sift through

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all of the the huge amounts of

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information that are thrown at them and

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I think one of the things that happened

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so often with you know these these

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practitioners is that they've been boos

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or people with information at a time and

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they're really vulnerable and booking

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job Polly talked to you over the weekend

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well and welcome welcome thanks he may

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Richard's been hosting the first round

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of skeptical questions here at skeptical

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trivia when the great questions was how

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far in astronomical units is Earth from

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the Sun how far in astronomical units is

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Earth from the Sun the answer coming up

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later in the show flowers answering them

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questions answering our questions one of

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our questions what sphere it is the

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lowest part of the atmosphere what

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sphere is the lowest part of the

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atmosphere well it's always to get the

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air of bitterness that comes over team

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that come in second last and here's a

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team that came second they've got

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nothing how do you feel of being pitted

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the post trivia newton-john so tell me

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how do you feel about being a

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disappointing loser I'll say I'm

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everyone else in the team reckons you

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didn't even contribute anything I did I

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did I contributed unique a Garen but

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they didn't write it down Sputnik I got

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Sputnik I got yeah she's giving answers

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you didn't write it down more to say

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don't anyone say anything

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I got Universal Serial bus ah well you

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came pretty close it what do you blame

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your loss the fact that Jamie and Brad

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ditched us before the end I blame them

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yes exactly and the one that knew all

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the political questions yes we blame

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them so it's their fault that's really

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well congratulations on coming second

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anyway the tribute has already been on

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folks and everyone's been done pretty

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excited by the trivia there there was

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some controversial questions maybe about

274
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Colin Baker's partner that was one of

275
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the other ones other one was what's the

276
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highest mountain in the universe which

277
00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:49,450
of course uh opposite me up but some

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people that would know that they're but

279
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a Hoover got here at Darlington of

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access colonel

281
00:11:57,780 --> 00:11:55,630
and it goes you'll be on a panel which

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is running on Sunday morning I am very

283
00:12:01,140 --> 00:11:59,740
excited and slightly scared well well

284
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that's the one that's all about cryptids

285
00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:03,280
and ghosties and things like that but I

286
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wouldn't say there were many people who

287
00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:06,220
are believers in that sort of thing here

288
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:08,830
no no I'm amongst very very different

289
00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:09,790
people but also at the same time

290
00:12:13,140 --> 00:12:11,560
fabulous people mmm

291
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:13,150
so what is the question you're most

292
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afraid of I don't know yet I think when

293
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:18,700
it gets asked you'll find out I'm still

294
00:12:21,690 --> 00:12:20,290
working that one out good imagine me

295
00:12:22,590 --> 00:12:21,700
something I why do you bother with that

296
00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:22,600
hooey

297
00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:24,040
maybe something like that that's a

298
00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:25,870
normal question - alright yeah I get

299
00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:27,220
asked that all the time and why do you

300
00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:28,840
bother with that some would go hooey

301
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:31,480
it fascinates me it just fascinates me

302
00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:33,670
it fascinates the possibility of a

303
00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:35,350
possibility of an afterlife

304
00:12:38,580 --> 00:12:37,180
at the same time being quite logical

305
00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:38,590
about the fact that you know as it

306
00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:41,100
stands with science at the point in time

307
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:43,990
there is no proof of it but but people

308
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,760
have these experiences I still think

309
00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:47,920
it's quite intriguing so for me again so

310
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:50,920
what do you think English Victorians

311
00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:52,570
were so obsessed with them because they

312
00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:53,950
had a broom up their bum and it made

313
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:55,420
them get you know they could they could

314
00:13:01,260 --> 00:12:58,000
speculate about wild stuff a bit more or

315
00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:01,270
not I love your analogy they were pretty

316
00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:02,380
uptight I mean just look at the

317
00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:05,470
buildings they built very very uptight

318
00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:07,750
buildings very uptight jokes I think I

319
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:09,910
think um because there's a lot of there

320
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:11,620
was a lost civil war going on in people

321
00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:14,050
people's relatives went over facing

322
00:13:17,010 --> 00:13:15,430
limit came back and they were trying to

323
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:17,020
find reasons as to try and find out what

324
00:13:19,830 --> 00:13:18,130
happened so they're like well let's go

325
00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:19,840
contact the dead I think a lot of

326
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:22,630
mediums not necessarily true mediums

327
00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:24,730
were actually trying to you know

328
00:13:27,780 --> 00:13:26,380
obviously find ways in which these

329
00:13:29,070 --> 00:13:27,790
people could actually try and contact

330
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:29,080
their loved ones so I think there's a

331
00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:30,640
bit of that going on at that time but

332
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:31,870
yeah I think that's how can a ball it's

333
00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:34,570
parked out you're probably right there

334
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:36,520
and because how did you go in the trivia

335
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:38,050
how did you go in the trivia contest we

336
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:40,420
just had downstairs what we were mid

337
00:13:44,190 --> 00:13:42,730
range but a couple of paranormal

338
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:44,200
questions I was able to help out with a

339
00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:45,730
team which I felt very privileged to be

340
00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:48,400
able to I'm like I know you knew the

341
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:49,960
answer to the uri geller question which

342
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:51,850
was critics thought that he was spending

343
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:53,650
the spoon with the lasers coming out of

344
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:55,210
his watch and of course the answer was

345
00:14:00,240 --> 00:13:58,450
his belt buckle which would have been

346
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:00,250
technically not possible at the time I

347
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:01,810
don't think you could add a battery for

348
00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:04,120
a laser that small I'm still not

349
00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:05,560
technically possible as far as I'm

350
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:10,620
have you ever heard Yuri Geller's album

351
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:13,209
no I haven't have you um yes I have I

352
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:14,920
have a copy of it in fact he has Maxine

353
00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:17,110
nightingales singing one track on it

354
00:14:21,769 --> 00:14:18,940
with him it's a little bit of the word

355
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:21,779
ponderous comes to mind

356
00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:24,850
top indulgent comes to mind the tracks

357
00:14:28,380 --> 00:14:26,709
are on YouTube just have a listen listen

358
00:14:31,050 --> 00:14:28,390
doc just google.you Rogalla his

359
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:31,060
self-titled album which was 1774 or

360
00:14:36,569 --> 00:14:32,560
something oh that's a gatefold out my of

361
00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:36,579
course at the vinyl it's great right in

362
00:14:40,650 --> 00:14:39,100
that odd way in that it's opposite to

363
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:40,660
Grave with something to help clean the

364
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:43,839
house with yes now what is know we like

365
00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:45,370
lifestyle keepers here on the skeptic

366
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:47,980
zone so how do you relax and get into

367
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:50,290
the mood to do your your panel you're

368
00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:51,519
going to be doing how do you get into

369
00:14:55,319 --> 00:14:53,950
the zone so to speak to do the skeptic

370
00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:55,329
and face them down there like you will

371
00:14:58,769 --> 00:14:56,740
be on Sunday morning what's your tip for

372
00:15:00,360 --> 00:14:58,779
the listener out there how they can you

373
00:15:02,130 --> 00:15:00,370
know steel themselves as a difficult

374
00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:02,140
task just remember why you're there

375
00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:04,540
remember why you're invited and enjoy it

376
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:05,860
enjoy the fact that there are people

377
00:15:08,190 --> 00:15:07,120
that are going to want to hear from you

378
00:15:09,810 --> 00:15:08,200
there's other people that want to hear a

379
00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:09,820
different opinion and at the same time

380
00:15:13,620 --> 00:15:11,620
being ready to to be challenged as well

381
00:15:14,819 --> 00:15:13,630
I think that's important yeah if we can

382
00:15:19,079 --> 00:15:14,829
take that into the whole weekend thank

383
00:15:21,569 --> 00:15:19,089
you I'm here with some major skeptical

384
00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:21,579
people we've got Kirsten Banks and

385
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,860
Pamela gate yeah it's so great to be

386
00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:25,120
talking to you how can I ask you do you

387
00:15:28,319 --> 00:15:27,100
actually produce your own podcasts or do

388
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:28,329
you just record and get someone to play

389
00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:31,570
with it afterwards I hire an audio

390
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:35,260
editor I no shame in that I just don't

391
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:37,839
have the ears to do it it's a magical

392
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:41,529
skill I do not have is our I advanced up

393
00:15:51,389 --> 00:15:48,840
we also have don't have one photographer

394
00:15:52,439 --> 00:15:51,399
who she might just learn it yes so what

395
00:15:55,019 --> 00:15:52,449
is the big challenge for you this

396
00:15:58,620 --> 00:15:55,029
weekend be time for me is speaking

397
00:16:04,470 --> 00:15:58,630
slowly I get too excited and I speak so

398
00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:09,390
that's nothing a jeering sorry

399
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:11,390
what's your way to get into the zone

400
00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:12,530
when you've got to present to people at

401
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:13,820
a conference or is that just completely

402
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:15,410
natural - because you've done so many

403
00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:17,690
times have a lot I think the thing I

404
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:19,790
have to worry about is my students say

405
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:22,010
professor voice it's when someone asks

406
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:23,570
me a question I've been asked so many

407
00:16:30,340 --> 00:16:26,450
times I have a rote answer and I just go

408
00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:30,350
into the well actually and it's like not

409
00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:32,300
mansplaining not woman splaining is

410
00:16:37,420 --> 00:16:35,750
Professor splaining yeah so that's a

411
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:37,430
tough one to stop I need to avoid that

412
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:39,770
that's my goal and now you're very good

413
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:40,970
at delivering things on time because

414
00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:42,410
lectures were a certain length so you

415
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:44,180
say you start talking fast towards the

416
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:47,030
end I try to avoid that I try to make

417
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:50,290
sure that my lectures are self-contained

418
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:53,360
I've aired in both directions though

419
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,130
many people worry about running too long

420
00:17:01,510 --> 00:16:57,680
I actually once finished in 40 minutes

421
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:01,520
for a 55-minute talk that has lasted as

422
00:17:06,690 --> 00:17:04,640
a moment of devastation and vamping all

423
00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:06,700
right so you had 20 minutes of questions

424
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:08,990
mostly at 20 minutes of being terrified

425
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,650
I was a graduate student oh it would've

426
00:17:16,090 --> 00:17:14,240
been a tough one to time - because you

427
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:16,100
hadn't done it before yeah exactly and

428
00:17:20,590 --> 00:17:18,050
every talk has to be given the first

429
00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:20,600
time once and that that's always a scary

430
00:17:25,390 --> 00:17:23,060
moment and I have to admit every talk

431
00:17:27,850 --> 00:17:25,400
I've given at a sceptical event or at am

432
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:27,860
has been the first time I've given that

433
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,010
talk so here's to see what happens on

434
00:17:34,750 --> 00:17:33,200
Sunday I'll probably about to talk to

435
00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:34,760
both you a few times over the over the

436
00:17:38,620 --> 00:17:36,620
weekend but one question before you both

437
00:17:40,690 --> 00:17:38,630
on the astronomical side of things now

438
00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:40,700
people are often going on UFOs and

439
00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:41,720
people would bring that up with you all

440
00:17:45,370 --> 00:17:43,190
the time I still have an issue with the

441
00:17:46,780 --> 00:17:45,380
the the poll of Neptune that's a

442
00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:46,790
straight line thing that's up there it's

443
00:17:50,530 --> 00:17:49,220
gotta be person made it's a square on

444
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:50,540
the top of the thing but we'll get to

445
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:52,370
that later but so when people bring up

446
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:53,930
your phones with you how do you normally

447
00:17:59,170 --> 00:17:56,050
what is it the quick answer with them

448
00:18:01,900 --> 00:17:59,180
then unidentified I'm fine with alien

449
00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:01,910
not so much and you know the military is

450
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:03,920
better at keeping secrets the scientists

451
00:18:08,830 --> 00:18:06,650
so anyone that says NASA's lying is

452
00:18:11,139 --> 00:18:08,840
wrong and anyone who doesn't think the

453
00:18:12,609 --> 00:18:11,149
military built it is also probably wrong

454
00:18:14,769 --> 00:18:12,619
okay and what have you filled those

455
00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:14,779
questions God I get those questions all

456
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:16,869
the time

457
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:20,690
my biggest answer is what is the UFO and

458
00:18:23,979 --> 00:18:22,820
unidentified flying object

459
00:18:25,329 --> 00:18:23,989
look at that flashing thing moving

460
00:18:28,239 --> 00:18:25,339
through the sky that's what we call jet

461
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:28,249
star both very good answers

462
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:29,330
you could probably flatten them with

463
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,820
budget saying that the extra-terrestrial

464
00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:33,440
hypothesis is just one and that you

465
00:18:37,659 --> 00:18:35,089
recommend they read the book called UFOs

466
00:18:37,989 --> 00:18:37,669
reframing the debate that's actual title

467
00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:37,999
of it

468
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:40,609
it's full of essays from people that non

469
00:18:44,259 --> 00:18:42,769
scientists and it's basically a whole

470
00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:44,269
bunch of range of offers of what they

471
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,830
might be and that'll keep them busy

472
00:18:49,989 --> 00:18:46,960
enough so you can leave the room

473
00:18:53,109 --> 00:18:49,999
excellent I fully believe in doing

474
00:18:55,299 --> 00:18:53,119
things like people asking me about hey

475
00:18:57,940 --> 00:18:55,309
look over my theory about debating

476
00:19:01,739 --> 00:18:57,950
Einstein if I could find two of those

477
00:19:04,029 --> 00:19:01,749
and put them together that maybe the

478
00:19:06,399 --> 00:19:04,039
perpetual motion machine I found many

479
00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:06,409
physicists that have a box of crank mail

480
00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:07,700
they get and they just keep that over

481
00:19:11,619 --> 00:19:09,080
the years do keep that stuff where you

482
00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:11,629
go I better not I have to admit I keep

483
00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:13,609
it in case any of them like become

484
00:19:18,489 --> 00:19:16,609
creepers later but also sometimes it's

485
00:19:20,589 --> 00:19:18,499
just fun to use with students who are

486
00:19:21,299 --> 00:19:20,599
like now no one would think oh yeah they

487
00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:21,309
do

488
00:19:26,889 --> 00:19:25,070
book might be an answer for those people

489
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:26,899
definitely something to think about I

490
00:19:30,609 --> 00:19:29,330
definitely been liberated actually lots

491
00:19:32,859 --> 00:19:30,619
of ideas I'm it goes from everything

492
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:32,869
from a religious one like demons through

493
00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:35,690
to multiverse time travel stuff like

494
00:19:39,099 --> 00:19:37,190
that so gives lots of options that are

495
00:19:42,369 --> 00:19:39,109
is well equally as valid for the proof

496
00:19:43,899 --> 00:19:42,379
we've got under the extra register cool

497
00:19:45,219 --> 00:19:43,909
sounds fun I'll have to find it and

498
00:19:47,979 --> 00:19:45,229
actually read it I'm very interested

499
00:19:49,389 --> 00:19:47,989
yeah thanks for chatting to us I'll

500
00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:49,399
check you over the weekend now drink up

501
00:19:52,539 --> 00:19:50,899
or whatever you've there is a non

502
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:52,549
skeptical I'm not skeptical about what

503
00:19:56,919 --> 00:19:54,799
you're drinking what is that this is a

504
00:19:59,360 --> 00:19:56,929
hazelnut martini and it may be the best

505
00:20:03,290 --> 00:19:59,370
choice I made today

506
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:03,300
oh the answers earth is one astronomical

507
00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:06,450
unit away from the Sun and the

508
00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:14,120
aliens are probing people and mutilating

509
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:17,550
cows 9/11 was an inside job

510
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:19,710
I'm the oppa to clean up my athlete's

511
00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:23,130
foot vaccines cause autism little

512
00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:25,620
sausage the clematis lawn is definitely

513
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:28,590
real we all have friends and family who

514
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:30,960
believe these things and much more well

515
00:20:34,850 --> 00:20:33,000
if you're a rational thinker who is

516
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:34,860
tired of arguing on social media and

517
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:36,450
never getting anywhere we have a

518
00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:37,530
solution for you

519
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,540
join the guerrilla skepticism on

520
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,000
wikipedia team and we will teach you how

521
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:44,400
to add reliable scientific and skeptical

522
00:20:49,460 --> 00:20:46,500
information to the world's number-one

523
00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:49,470
source of information Wikipedia we write

524
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:51,420
new articles and improve existing ones

525
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:53,970
we remove pseudoscience paranormal and

526
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,130
augment claims substituting the actual

527
00:21:00,980 --> 00:20:58,320
facts and we operate in many languages

528
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:00,990
we've already reached tens of millions

529
00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:03,330
of people searching for information but

530
00:21:08,420 --> 00:21:05,340
as you can imagine we can never do

531
00:21:11,030 --> 00:21:08,430
enough so please join us all you need is

532
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:11,040
a PC a Facebook account and the desire

533
00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:13,080
to help educate the planet in fact

534
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:15,150
you'll be educating the world while you

535
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:18,930
sleep clock ticked us T is Oh W team at

536
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:22,710
gmail.com guerrilla skepticism the time

537
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:27,490
is now music by purple planet calm

538
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,130
[Music]

539
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:37,120
Australian skeptics National Convention

540
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:41,260
2018 skeptic on awards and this comes to

541
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:44,080
us from WWC optics Khamenei you

542
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:47,200
published on the 13th of October by Tim

543
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:54,820
Mendham a bad day for Sarah Australian

544
00:22:00,570 --> 00:21:57,730
skeptics inks notorious bent spoon award

545
00:22:04,139 --> 00:22:00,580
has gone to social-media influencer

546
00:22:06,299 --> 00:22:04,149
Sarah's day who promotes questionable

547
00:22:09,330 --> 00:22:06,309
natural health remedies via her vast

548
00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:09,340
network of followers the bent spoon

549
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:11,350
awarded to the proponent of the most

550
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:13,210
preposterous piece of pseudo scientific

551
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:14,320
or paranormal

552
00:22:20,639 --> 00:22:17,289
piffle of the year with past winners

553
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:20,649
including Pete paleo Evans the CSIRO s

554
00:22:26,129 --> 00:22:23,919
head Larry Marshall the ABC the pharmacy

555
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:26,139
Guild of Australia the University of

556
00:22:33,539 --> 00:22:29,710
Wollongong and a psychic dentist Sarah

557
00:22:36,029 --> 00:22:33,549
Stevenson aka Sarah's day picked up the

558
00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:36,039
2018 bent spoon for spreading

559
00:22:41,009 --> 00:22:38,440
misinformation about health via her

560
00:22:44,750 --> 00:22:41,019
online following of over 1 million

561
00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:44,760
people made up of largely young women

562
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:47,260
Stevenson has no qualifications in

563
00:22:53,129 --> 00:22:50,130
health but promotes herself as quote a

564
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,139
holistic health & fitness youtuber end

565
00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:55,600
quote via a YouTube channel blog and

566
00:23:02,100 --> 00:22:58,690
podcast on the 26th of April 2018

567
00:23:05,310 --> 00:23:02,110
Sarah's day posted on Instagram quote I

568
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:05,320
did it i reversed by cervical dysplasia

569
00:23:10,529 --> 00:23:08,230
encode claiming successful treatment of

570
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:10,539
her precancerous condition through a

571
00:23:16,649 --> 00:23:13,210
regime of quote the power of natural

572
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:16,659
medicine food lifestyle changes and

573
00:23:22,889 --> 00:23:20,110
prayer in quote and that she quote made

574
00:23:26,009 --> 00:23:22,899
a conscious effort every day to cure her

575
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:26,019
cervix banquet the vast majority of

576
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:28,360
cervical anomalies are caused by the

577
00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:32,950
human papilloma virus HPV and the Cancer

578
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:35,260
Council of Australia states that quote

579
00:23:40,049 --> 00:23:37,809
there is no evidence that there is

580
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,059
anything the woman can do in terms of

581
00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:42,159
diet and lifestyle that promotes

582
00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:45,460
regression in quote quote to suggest you

583
00:23:48,899 --> 00:23:47,470
can heal your cervix with positive

584
00:23:51,899 --> 00:23:48,909
thoughts and greens

585
00:23:53,940 --> 00:23:51,909
smoothies is not only narcissistic it's

586
00:23:56,099 --> 00:23:53,950
also dangerous to recommend other women

587
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:56,109
should do the same thing in quote said

588
00:24:01,739 --> 00:23:58,330
Australian skeptics president Alethea

589
00:24:04,169 --> 00:24:01,749
Dean quote it's admirable to promote a

590
00:24:07,169 --> 00:24:04,179
healthy lifestyle but believing you've

591
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:07,179
healed your cervical dysplasia naturally

592
00:24:13,169 --> 00:24:11,070
is not grounded in reality in quote a

593
00:24:16,409 --> 00:24:13,179
dishonorable mention went to the

594
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:16,419
Therapeutic Goods Administration TGA and

595
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:19,210
the Australian Government for enshrining

596
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:21,970
pseudo medical indications into

597
00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:24,970
legislation including quote balanced

598
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:29,320
aggravated vanta up raise lift shrunken

599
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:33,849
middle Chee moisten dryness in the

600
00:24:41,129 --> 00:24:39,039
triple burner and disinhibitor more

601
00:24:43,649 --> 00:24:41,139
positive achievements were also noted

602
00:24:46,109 --> 00:24:43,659
with the inaugural Barry Williams award

603
00:24:49,349 --> 00:24:46,119
for skeptical journalism going to Jane

604
00:24:51,149 --> 00:24:49,359
Hansen reporter for News Corp who has

605
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:51,159
written extensively on the

606
00:24:56,849 --> 00:24:53,470
anti-vaccination n anti-flu ride

607
00:24:58,919 --> 00:24:56,859
movements fad diets and quack cures the

608
00:25:01,560 --> 00:24:58,929
thread for net for the promotion of

609
00:25:04,379 --> 00:25:01,570
reason was given to dr. Ian Musgrave

610
00:25:07,019 --> 00:25:04,389
senior lecturer in pharmacology at the

611
00:25:09,509 --> 00:25:07,029
University of Adelaide who has been a

612
00:25:12,089 --> 00:25:09,519
long-standing and effective science

613
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,099
communicator in the area of pharmacology

614
00:25:17,999 --> 00:25:14,159
and provides a voice of reason in

615
00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:18,009
challenging quote Kim phobia unquote

616
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:20,609
other winners on the night included

617
00:25:25,019 --> 00:25:23,200
longtime New South Wales skeptics

618
00:25:28,109 --> 00:25:25,029
committee member Martin Hadley and

619
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:28,119
immediate past-president Iran Segev both

620
00:25:34,049 --> 00:25:30,970
of whom were awarded a life membership

621
00:25:36,239 --> 00:25:34,059
the winners were announced at the formal

622
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:36,249
dinner on October 13th for the

623
00:25:41,779 --> 00:25:37,690
Australian skeptics National Convention

624
00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:41,789
which this year was held in Sydney and

625
00:25:49,619 --> 00:25:45,070
it's interesting to note that on the

626
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:49,629
comments section of that webpage under

627
00:25:57,509 --> 00:25:54,450
the title of a Sarah's day follower

628
00:26:00,389 --> 00:25:57,519
someone has written I hope you realize

629
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:00,399
that she has disclaimer in her videos

630
00:26:05,239 --> 00:26:02,730
and post that she is not special

631
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:05,249
in these fields she is simply just

632
00:26:10,099 --> 00:26:07,289
sharing what has worked for her

633
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:10,109
personally clearly you're mixing words

634
00:26:14,810 --> 00:26:12,470
and making horrible blogpost about

635
00:26:19,639 --> 00:26:14,820
someone who doesn't deserve it

636
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:19,649
hate gets ya nowhere buddy and the reply

637
00:26:25,099 --> 00:26:23,159
from Tim Mendham disclaimers do not

638
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,109
excuse enthusiastic endorsement of

639
00:26:29,899 --> 00:26:27,600
nonsense particularly for someone with

640
00:26:33,009 --> 00:26:29,909
such a large following and another

641
00:26:37,129 --> 00:26:33,019
comment written by somebody called sigh

642
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:37,139
it's pi GH disclaimers don't excuse

643
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:39,659
putting dangerous misinformation out

644
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:41,700
there how about I promote drinking

645
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:44,279
bleach but add a disclaimer that it may

646
00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:47,570
not work for everyone

647
00:26:54,379 --> 00:26:51,830
[Music]

648
00:26:55,519 --> 00:26:54,389
okay I'm here right in the back of the

649
00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:55,529
room now which is interesting there's

650
00:26:58,729 --> 00:26:56,820
plenty of room back here but we got

651
00:27:01,039 --> 00:26:58,739
Jaden Hansen from The Sunday Telegraph

652
00:27:02,659 --> 00:27:01,049
ah right and look how are things in the

653
00:27:04,249 --> 00:27:02,669
print media well before we get into what

654
00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:04,259
you've been doing them you've been there

655
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:05,820
a while how do you think it's changed

656
00:27:10,639 --> 00:27:08,129
recently is it tough oh we are because

657
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:10,649
we're up against lots of social media

658
00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:13,450
outlets that have no

659
00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:16,660
over here over heads and also know that

660
00:27:20,790 --> 00:27:18,940
contract with the truth that's true and

661
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:20,800
that's where you guys come into that

662
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:22,570
must get really annoying for you when

663
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:23,860
you just say that person just made that

664
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:25,330
stuff up and no one's ever got no

665
00:27:28,350 --> 00:27:26,650
editors gonna be wrapping them over the

666
00:27:31,410 --> 00:27:28,360
knuckles for yeah well also gives me a

667
00:27:32,430 --> 00:27:31,420
story to write doesn't know and in fact

668
00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:32,440
that's what I'm here to talk to you

669
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:33,400
about because I believe you've been

670
00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:34,450
writing some things about the

671
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:36,190
anti-vaccination movement in Australia

672
00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:37,690
or what angle you've been taking and

673
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:39,100
what have you found out well I'm

674
00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:41,340
actually born and bred and Mullumbimby

675
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:44,500
so ground zero which is Merrill's

676
00:27:48,990 --> 00:27:46,930
trapping ground Merrill Dory who's you

677
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:49,000
know from America but has you know she

678
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:51,310
set up in the nineteen nineties and set

679
00:27:54,990 --> 00:27:53,650
up the avian and it's always been a

680
00:27:58,800 --> 00:27:55,000
thorn in my side

681
00:28:00,540 --> 00:27:58,810
I remember watching in 2009 Toni

682
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:00,550
McCaffrey and Dave McAfee had just lost

683
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:04,510
their daughter Donna and Merrill Tori

684
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:05,890
were they were on the Sunday night

685
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:07,690
program and Merrill Dory was on the

686
00:28:11,010 --> 00:28:09,490
Sunday night program and I was sitting

687
00:28:14,010 --> 00:28:11,020
there watching it and Mike Monroe let

688
00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:14,020
Merrill Dory just rabbit on about her

689
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:15,790
conspiracy theories with it and he did

690
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:19,510
not pick her up and I thought we even

691
00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:22,450
Denise research and I thought we we the

692
00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:24,760
media cannot let people like that come

693
00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:28,600
and spread such rubbish without checking

694
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:31,960
it so in my mind there in was born

695
00:28:36,750 --> 00:28:35,560
no jab no play so I started working with

696
00:28:38,670 --> 00:28:36,760
The Sunday Telegraph of my fabulous

697
00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:38,680
deputy editor Claire Harvey and I

698
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:41,500
decided that we needed to set up a

699
00:28:46,770 --> 00:28:44,050
campaign that just attacked the lies

700
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:46,780
with truth just facts facts facts and

701
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:48,760
also challenged the government to raise

702
00:28:51,820 --> 00:28:50,090
the bar

703
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,830
we'll find a way for the government to

704
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:52,880
the race because they weren't doing

705
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:56,810
anything no race bar what can we look at

706
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,250
for the government to do to raise the

707
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,320
bar on vaccinations so we know we found

708
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:02,480
that the Public Health Act could perhaps

709
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:06,650
look at enrollment into child care

710
00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:09,350
centers that they and and we challenged

711
00:29:15,790 --> 00:29:12,200
the New South Wales health to change the

712
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:15,800
laws of abatement people had to prove

713
00:29:19,390 --> 00:29:17,090
that they got the information from the

714
00:29:22,930 --> 00:29:19,400
doctor not from dr. Google and that's

715
00:29:25,540 --> 00:29:22,940
where no job no placed our life so now

716
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:25,550
but that and did they was their reaction

717
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:26,930
that you were trying to do some smear

718
00:29:29,410 --> 00:29:28,610
campaign and your thing was like you

719
00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:29,420
said you're just telling your truth

720
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:31,340
there and did they treat that as not

721
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:35,330
that where they put you in the

722
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:37,610
conspiracy were you in the big someone

723
00:29:45,850 --> 00:29:44,330
yeah she with Meryl or Vienna her chance

724
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:45,860
to go back and forth with her directly

725
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:47,810
at all I have emailed her a couple of

726
00:29:58,890 --> 00:29:50,750
times she doesn't answer the questions

727
00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:01,120
anyway so block e block block that's

728
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:04,670
what I do now we have been talking about

729
00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:05,930
this you think it's good to preemptively

730
00:30:08,980 --> 00:30:07,430
block people so if you see a really

731
00:30:10,930 --> 00:30:08,990
annoying person on Twitter you can go oh

732
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:10,940
I want nothing to do them and rock block

733
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:12,290
them preemptively before they haven't

734
00:30:16,090 --> 00:30:13,730
done anything to you you know what I

735
00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:16,100
think professor Robert boy said don't

736
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:19,460
engage because everything you say gets

737
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:22,970
turned arithmatic um another blog post

738
00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:25,700
for her that Jane actually said this to

739
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,950
me because she's deprived of oxygen now

740
00:30:32,380 --> 00:30:29,840
because the journalists don't want to

741
00:30:34,030 --> 00:30:32,390
talk to her because we we don't you know

742
00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:34,040
we don't do that false balancing thing

743
00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:36,440
we don't need to go to a nutter and say

744
00:30:40,570 --> 00:30:39,020
hey you know as the old saying is the

745
00:30:42,610 --> 00:30:40,580
journalists somebody tells you it's

746
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:42,620
raining somebody tells you it's sunny

747
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:44,090
you don't write both sides you stick

748
00:30:48,490 --> 00:30:45,530
your head out the window and you see the

749
00:30:50,649 --> 00:30:48,500
truth yes so we we listen to the

750
00:30:54,159 --> 00:30:50,659
scientific world we listen to

751
00:30:55,539 --> 00:30:54,169
the medical experts we don't go to the

752
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,549
Nutter and say what do you think about

753
00:30:59,470 --> 00:30:57,919
that that's true you said that on 60

754
00:31:00,639 --> 00:30:59,480
minutes that's what fired you up but

755
00:31:01,870 --> 00:31:00,649
what do you think is the most egregious

756
00:31:04,180 --> 00:31:01,880
thing about the anti-vaccination

757
00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:04,190
movement generally but they're dangerous

758
00:31:09,789 --> 00:31:07,580
they're really dangerous I mean they

759
00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:09,799
actually break up families which one of

760
00:31:14,379 --> 00:31:12,110
the stories that I entered into one of

761
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:14,389
the awards tonight was about chase

762
00:31:24,009 --> 00:31:20,409
Walker who was born with epilepsy and

763
00:31:25,779 --> 00:31:24,019
Cine Walker had you know accepted this

764
00:31:28,090 --> 00:31:25,789
fact in the first 12 months of his life

765
00:31:30,879 --> 00:31:28,100
he had seizures within minutes of him

766
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,889
being born she wills her

767
00:31:34,659 --> 00:31:33,200
quadriplegia child into a faxed movie

768
00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:34,669
showing somewhere on the Sunshine Coast

769
00:31:39,159 --> 00:31:36,529
or somewhere and the anti-vaccine

770
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,169
movement pounced on her and all of a

771
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:41,600
sudden her accepted fact about her child

772
00:31:48,940 --> 00:31:45,769
had become their vaccine injured poster

773
00:31:50,619 --> 00:31:48,950
boy and then the medical cannabis people

774
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:50,629
jumped on board and so lots of this

775
00:31:57,399 --> 00:31:54,080
child he's taken off his champion he's

776
00:31:59,470 --> 00:31:57,409
total nutrition he's being fed organic

777
00:32:01,749 --> 00:31:59,480
you know mashed banana with cannabis oil

778
00:32:03,639 --> 00:32:01,759
the whole thing he loses 25% of his body

779
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:03,649
weight which can kill a child of course

780
00:32:07,629 --> 00:32:05,990
so the doctors brought him back into

781
00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:07,639
hospital and she abducted him from

782
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:09,769
hospital and them any vaccine people

783
00:32:13,180 --> 00:32:11,450
saying it's what conspiracy blardy

784
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:13,190
blardy blar and at the end of the day

785
00:32:16,629 --> 00:32:14,240
she's lost her child

786
00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:16,639
they've lost custody so they have

787
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:19,950
actively destroyed an entire family

788
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:22,290
I don't want to be mean to cine and Mark

789
00:32:27,070 --> 00:32:25,650
but they were vulnerable people who

790
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:27,080
weren't you know particularly

791
00:32:32,510 --> 00:32:30,240
scientifically literate and the only

792
00:32:34,550 --> 00:32:32,520
vaccine pre gaydar looking for a poster

793
00:32:36,460 --> 00:32:34,560
child and they found it in him because

794
00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:36,470
there aren't many vaccine injured people

795
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:40,020
and they absolutely destroyed that

796
00:32:44,510 --> 00:32:42,930
family it is powerful stuff is it

797
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:44,520
difficult to keep addition to this

798
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:46,170
because it's hard not to take personally

799
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:47,810
when you see this happening to people

800
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:49,650
how do you just suit yourself as a

801
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:50,880
journalist could you have to a little

802
00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:53,880
bit or else you'll be taking it finds my

803
00:32:57,530 --> 00:32:55,860
passion but the more hate blogs they

804
00:32:59,960 --> 00:32:57,540
write about me the more I want to just D

805
00:33:01,460 --> 00:32:59,970
in and you know just throw facts that it

806
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:01,470
just throw factors that affect that

807
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:03,090
that's a great quote throw facts at it

808
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:04,710
look thank you very much for coming onto

809
00:33:10,110 --> 00:33:06,090
and joining us and have a good evening

810
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:26,510
[Music]

811
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:33,779
[Applause]

812
00:33:38,669 --> 00:33:38,039
I rented oh hi Trish hi would you like a

813
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:38,679
coffee

814
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:40,090
yeah thanks what are you working on I'm

815
00:33:43,619 --> 00:33:42,399
trying to come up with a new promo to

816
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:43,629
play on the skeptic zone

817
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:46,960
who's it for the good thinking Society

818
00:33:51,479 --> 00:33:49,570
in the UK you know these oh yeah I know

819
00:33:53,159 --> 00:33:51,489
them the guys who recently chased the

820
00:33:55,889 --> 00:33:53,169
homeopaths out of the UK Public Health

821
00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:55,899
System oh did they yeah they campaigned

822
00:33:59,729 --> 00:33:57,369
and lobbied government for a while and

823
00:34:01,830 --> 00:33:59,739
now you cannot get homeopathy on the NHS

824
00:34:03,869 --> 00:34:01,840
so they can now spend public money on

825
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:03,879
health care that works Yeah right look

826
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:06,399
I'll mention that in the promo now their

827
00:34:12,809 --> 00:34:10,960
website is good thinking society org and

828
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,819
that website is a good resource for

829
00:34:16,770 --> 00:34:15,280
learning more about quackery thanks

830
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:16,780
Trish that gives me something good to

831
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:28,779
[Music]

832
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:31,309
look dr. Kovac we liquor so now you're

833
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:32,399
rushing off to Adelaide which is a

834
00:34:36,460 --> 00:34:33,839
fairly rash thing to do in the first

835
00:34:39,649 --> 00:34:36,470
place why going there talking to

836
00:34:42,349 --> 00:34:39,659
intensive care nurses and there's a

837
00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:42,359
whole different field intensive care is

838
00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:44,129
such a radical thing to do to somebody

839
00:34:48,799 --> 00:34:47,700
that a week in intensive care takes a

840
00:34:51,169 --> 00:34:48,809
year out of your life it takes you a

841
00:34:53,899 --> 00:34:51,179
year to recover because they're

842
00:34:56,029 --> 00:34:53,909
basically pouring liquids and foods into

843
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:56,039
you keeping you alive and taking stuff

844
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,089
out of you they're doing the breathing

845
00:35:01,400 --> 00:34:59,760
for you all you're doing is keeping your

846
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:01,410
brain and heart running and they've

847
00:35:05,180 --> 00:35:03,510
provided the background so we're not

848
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:05,190
very good at mimicking what the body

849
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:07,529
does the rationale do easily and so it

850
00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:08,940
takes a huge toll on you I'm talking to

851
00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:10,470
those guys so they're the ones that

852
00:35:15,289 --> 00:35:12,390
smoke and drink a lot those noses aren't

853
00:35:17,630 --> 00:35:15,299
they traditionally they do because

854
00:35:19,789 --> 00:35:17,640
that's the really high stress stuff it

855
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:19,799
is a high stress area I will actually

856
00:35:24,319 --> 00:35:21,450
ask them this question to see if this is

857
00:35:26,539 --> 00:35:24,329
a true data point or not it was not

858
00:35:27,799 --> 00:35:26,549
think that in that area of hospital that

859
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:27,809
would be the one that would be the most

860
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:29,010
stressful they're the ones you see

861
00:35:32,809 --> 00:35:31,529
puffing quickly outside I will go and

862
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:32,819
see how many I'll see puffing outside

863
00:35:35,690 --> 00:35:34,049
and look the one question because you do

864
00:35:36,980 --> 00:35:35,700
have to go is you mentioned there that

865
00:35:38,660 --> 00:35:36,990
you're at a dinner party you're a guest

866
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:38,670
at someone's place and someone made a

867
00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:41,250
obviously false statement and you were

868
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:42,750
put in a difficult position by your wife

869
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:44,609
for all the skeptics listening that just

870
00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:46,890
want to jump in there and barrel the

871
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:49,020
people down how did you handle it with a

872
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:50,700
suggestion for them doing the same well

873
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:52,770
I was going to be irrational and try and

874
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:55,170
engage him in discussion and a small

875
00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:56,250
part of me in the background knew

876
00:35:59,539 --> 00:35:57,990
something changing thing is you've got

877
00:36:00,440 --> 00:35:59,549
to create an awkward atmosphere and

878
00:36:03,650 --> 00:36:00,450
we're going to end up with a he-said

879
00:36:05,779 --> 00:36:03,660
he-said she-said she-said thing then my

880
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:05,789
wife she's obviously short and then my

881
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:08,700
wife started gently nudging me kicking

882
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,160
me bashing me on the leg and I realized

883
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:14,160
I'm being irrational yeah I can't think

884
00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:15,690
straight because I'm in this emotional

885
00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:18,150
state she is an outsider I will follow

886
00:36:23,299 --> 00:36:21,630
her lead and basically if I did okay she

887
00:36:25,069 --> 00:36:23,309
didn't kick me too hard and if I start

888
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:25,079
getting the wrong past he did and the

889
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:26,490
pathway we chose turned out to be

890
00:36:33,049 --> 00:36:29,160
perfect for this situation which was at

891
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:33,059
a dinner party where the Clara denialist

892
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:33,520
was

893
00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:38,740
just a blow in once and it would be

894
00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:41,260
really impolite to everybody to create a

895
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:44,680
bad vibe so I just said one thing which

896
00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:48,010
was you are scientifically incorrect and

897
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:50,230
changed the subject because nothing I

898
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,900
could do would change his mind would

899
00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:54,400
bring him to the light I was he still

900
00:36:58,260 --> 00:36:55,750
trying to have the argument so you just

901
00:37:00,210 --> 00:36:58,270
you just took that same path no he

902
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:00,220
backed off very quickly he dropped in a

903
00:37:06,450 --> 00:37:02,530
few comments and each time he did my

904
00:37:08,370 --> 00:37:06,460
wife kicked me and I just smiled and

905
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:08,380
said nothing and other people picked up

906
00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:10,030
the conversation and it just sort of

907
00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:11,830
drifted away it was a far more pleasant

908
00:37:15,330 --> 00:37:13,270
evening

909
00:37:17,490 --> 00:37:15,340
and I didn't waste time on somebody

910
00:37:19,170 --> 00:37:17,500
whose brain could not be changed so make

911
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:19,180
your thoughts known and then just be

912
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:21,130
polite and and change the subject if

913
00:37:25,050 --> 00:37:22,930
they did yeah yeah it's not gonna change

914
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:25,060
if you look at what happened would have

915
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:26,770
happened a few hours later they'd all

916
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:27,970
gone down a different pathway would have

917
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:29,080
had an argument it would be an

918
00:37:34,020 --> 00:37:32,530
unpleasant and be unhappy and his mind

919
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:34,030
wouldn't have been changed this way was

920
00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:35,830
still at the same path it's the same

921
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:37,840
endpoint but we had a happier ending you

922
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:39,370
feel the same way about arguing on line

923
00:37:46,140 --> 00:37:42,960
just a few things are as useless as that

924
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:46,150
arguing on line often you're arguing

925
00:37:53,850 --> 00:37:49,360
against roles what you can do is just

926
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:53,860
stick to the facts the moment they

927
00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:57,280
started generating into rudeness I'm

928
00:38:01,440 --> 00:37:59,290
mute them but so long as they're polite

929
00:38:03,330 --> 00:38:01,450
I'm cool if they're a troll let them

930
00:38:05,730 --> 00:38:03,340
crawl away if they're if they are in

931
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:05,740
fact genuinely troll if they're a bot

932
00:38:10,170 --> 00:38:08,350
I'll just block them but I did like to

933
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:10,180
try to keep the lines open and because

934
00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:12,850
it's not just them it's their family at

935
00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:16,230
home they might have children or parents

936
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:18,220
thanks for your time today we'll see you

937
00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:20,050
here tomorrow enjoy Adil ever got Lauren

938
00:38:23,610 --> 00:38:21,190
to come up now so I'll get out of the

939
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:23,620
way oh hi dr. Lauren bye

940
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:28,500
[Music]

941
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:31,330
the skeptic magazine the journal from

942
00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:34,480
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

943
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:36,700
the world's second oldest skeptical

944
00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:42,190
magazine visit WWF XCOM au and click the

945
00:38:49,590 --> 00:38:45,190
publication's link you can also find

946
00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:49,600
there over 30 years on back issues free

947
00:38:59,780 --> 00:38:52,750
to download the skeptic magazine from

948
00:38:59,790 --> 00:39:12,370
[Music]

949
00:39:19,329 --> 00:39:14,829
those secretive may not here in the

950
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:19,339
audience for the Rosenberg and

951
00:39:23,259 --> 00:39:20,930
surrounded by people who work with him

952
00:39:25,509 --> 00:39:23,269
at Pine Koala was there and that people

953
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:25,519
of interest to UM know more about it to

954
00:39:30,370 --> 00:39:28,249
do with the TV show and goods a

955
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:30,380
philippic nipson decent piece of

956
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:31,729
information if the hot goes on there

957
00:39:35,380 --> 00:39:33,410
I've been reading up on it and I've

958
00:39:36,670 --> 00:39:35,390
learned a lot more and it's one of those

959
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:36,680
things where the more you read about it

960
00:39:41,950 --> 00:39:38,210
you don't know much you get very

961
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:41,960
confused very quickly but I'm going to

962
00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:45,200
give it a go I've got some big words to

963
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:49,460
use like ich along and transient which

964
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:52,370
are the names of programs see how I go

965
00:39:59,490 --> 00:39:56,730
[Music]

966
00:40:00,990 --> 00:39:59,500
you can see how busy the room is and I

967
00:40:02,730 --> 00:40:01,000
thought I'd play but in the game of see

968
00:40:05,010 --> 00:40:02,740
if I could swap the spook see things

969
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:05,020
like spies or operatives here and um

970
00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:08,170
honestly again how would you know it

971
00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:10,360
could be like someone who truly obvious

972
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:13,900
with an overcoat and a slouch hat or the

973
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:15,730
person who looks at the mom obvious

974
00:40:19,620 --> 00:40:17,170
could be the one or there could be no

975
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:19,630
one here or everyone could be as

976
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:23,730
beautiful it's a fun game to play

977
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:26,970
I reckon the dark God with the cardigan

978
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:29,280
yeah the guy with the cardigan he's got

979
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:37,140
secrets good evening everyone my name is

980
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:39,150
Liam clock and it's my pleasure to

981
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:41,010
welcome all of you here tonight to

982
00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:43,290
launch the book client gap the inside

983
00:40:46,819 --> 00:40:46,020
story of the NSA in Australia written by

984
00:40:58,329 --> 00:40:46,829
David Rosenberg

985
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:02,180
have any questions about the book about

986
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:03,960
about the TV series anything you've

987
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:06,089
always wanted to know because because if

988
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:07,770
you answer the questions that I might be

989
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,510
able to give you an answer yes an

990
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:11,520
innovator hello Richard Saunders from

991
00:41:15,859 --> 00:41:12,960
the Australian skeptics one of the

992
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,869
things that we get put to us quite a lot

993
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:18,240
at conspiracy theorists and I kid you

994
00:41:23,359 --> 00:41:20,910
not one of them conspiracies is mind gap

995
00:41:31,370 --> 00:41:23,369
is a secret base for aliens to create

996
00:41:33,170 --> 00:41:31,380
closed Road laws what did you encounter

997
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:33,180
these sort of crazy conspiracies when

998
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:38,010
you are working there never heard of the

999
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:40,890
UFO research society New South Wales you

1000
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:41,970
have our research society

1001
00:41:47,539 --> 00:41:44,880
yes I was asked to give a talk at at

1002
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:47,549
that particular organizations and I did

1003
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:49,770
that because I you know we all respect

1004
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:51,240
people as the pupils opinions and what

1005
00:41:54,740 --> 00:41:53,460
and what and what they want to do so

1006
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:54,750
they gave me a long list of questions

1007
00:41:58,840 --> 00:41:56,010
exactly like that

1008
00:42:01,060 --> 00:41:58,850
yeah how many aliens is

1009
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:01,070
have been to Pine Gap is it isn't it

1010
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:03,890
isn't an alien landing site how far

1011
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:05,690
underground that because the facility

1012
00:42:12,460 --> 00:42:07,490
goes and is it used in high powered

1013
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:12,470
weapons so I barely disappointed the

1014
00:42:17,590 --> 00:42:15,650
audience I have to say because I

1015
00:42:19,060 --> 00:42:17,600
couldn't confirm that Pine Gap had

1016
00:42:20,860 --> 00:42:19,070
aliens or that we were involved in any

1017
00:42:22,570 --> 00:42:20,870
kind of high-power weapons testing it

1018
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:22,580
simply mean that's not happening fine

1019
00:42:25,690 --> 00:42:23,090
daddy

1020
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:25,700
as I tell people the satellites the Pine

1021
00:42:29,710 --> 00:42:27,530
Gap uses the antennas are all pointing

1022
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:29,720
down towards Earth trying to find

1023
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:42,610
the coffers got Dave signing my copy of

1024
00:42:46,450 --> 00:42:44,570
at Pine Gap it's a very exciting thing

1025
00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:46,460
and I've got my I've got my notes I've

1026
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:48,020
got here which are all been like

1027
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:49,730
incredibly superseded by what I've been

1028
00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:50,930
listening to but that it is quite

1029
00:42:54,580 --> 00:42:53,060
interesting about to kind of say okay do

1030
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:54,590
you think they called it five eyes and

1031
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:55,730
kept New Zealand in there because they

1032
00:42:59,230 --> 00:42:56,930
didn't want a group that's called four

1033
00:43:01,150 --> 00:42:59,240
eyes that sounds like it's a better name

1034
00:43:02,410 --> 00:43:01,160
does rather than four eyes we had to

1035
00:43:04,180 --> 00:43:02,420
find a fifth in New Zealand was a good

1036
00:43:05,860 --> 00:43:04,190
choice that's true that's true and I

1037
00:43:07,420 --> 00:43:05,870
suspect the whole aliens thing is a

1038
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,430
disinformation thing to throw people

1039
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,960
right off the path of what's going on

1040
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:10,640
because you were saying that you can

1041
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:12,530
recharge the batteries on nuclear

1042
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:13,970
submarines but it's just a communication

1043
00:43:17,860 --> 00:43:16,190
it's a long low frequency communication

1044
00:43:19,330 --> 00:43:17,870
you're not charging any batteries

1045
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:19,340
we're not charging any batteries the

1046
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:22,370
Pine Gap I can tell you that there's

1047
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:24,170
anyone looking there was no pushback

1048
00:43:27,850 --> 00:43:26,030
tonight there was no-one going boo get

1049
00:43:29,950 --> 00:43:27,860
off Australian soil booed none of that

1050
00:43:33,310 --> 00:43:29,960
now we're all good friends here actually

1051
00:43:34,780 --> 00:43:33,320
and yeah I I did say earlier that I do

1052
00:43:36,430 --> 00:43:34,790
believe that the partnership that the

1053
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:36,440
friendship the alliance is bigger than

1054
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:39,650
one person regardless of who is in

1055
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:41,270
office I think the bigger picture always

1056
00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:43,430
has to be seen there and and the

1057
00:43:47,290 --> 00:43:44,990
Alliance goes back very very far is very

1058
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:47,300
very strong and hopefully it will hope

1059
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:48,560
hopefully it will just continue in that

1060
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:50,960
in that their respect and there was the

1061
00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:52,640
question ask if you thought there was

1062
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:53,870
something going on the government's

1063
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:55,250
doing something bad is there any

1064
00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:57,770
mechanism to go or hey can we do that

1065
00:44:01,090 --> 00:43:58,970
but I would think that would be like you

1066
00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:01,100
feel given the launch codes you just

1067
00:44:04,810 --> 00:44:02,990
push the launch codes you don't go is

1068
00:44:06,910 --> 00:44:04,820
this a genuine order you don't question

1069
00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:06,920
orders is it like that in the

1070
00:44:10,060 --> 00:44:08,750
intelligence community right I know

1071
00:44:11,350 --> 00:44:10,070
that's the way it is in the military

1072
00:44:12,910 --> 00:44:11,360
because in the military if you don't

1073
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:12,920
follow orders then people die so you

1074
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:15,200
really you really have to do that we are

1075
00:44:18,850 --> 00:44:17,570
collecting intelligence everyone of

1076
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:18,860
course does have their own opinion but

1077
00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:20,450
when we all sign up we know that when

1078
00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:22,760
we're here we're here to do a job we get

1079
00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:25,790
tasks to do work in finding particular

1080
00:44:30,070 --> 00:44:27,830
signals and we and we do that like I

1081
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:30,080
said Pine Gap is not an offensive base

1082
00:44:33,820 --> 00:44:31,310
at all it doesn't have any kind of

1083
00:44:35,410 --> 00:44:33,830
offensive capability whatsoever wouldn't

1084
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:35,420
communications with drones be routed

1085
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,610
through that not at all not at all no no

1086
00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:39,440
that would give Pine Gap and all an

1087
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:41,600
offensive capability and that I believe

1088
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:42,800
would not be acceptable to the

1089
00:44:46,089 --> 00:44:44,330
Australian government I'd also also

1090
00:44:49,329 --> 00:44:46,099
don't think that it would be acceptable

1091
00:44:52,059 --> 00:44:49,339
for for this this this particular

1092
00:44:55,809 --> 00:44:52,069
facility simply simply because it would

1093
00:44:57,729 --> 00:44:55,819
be it would be such a change in these in

1094
00:45:00,789 --> 00:44:57,739
the protocol that's existed at Pine Gap

1095
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:00,799
to simply be a passive eavesdropping

1096
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:02,930
facility basically you satellites to

1097
00:45:06,279 --> 00:45:04,640
collect signals passively but not

1098
00:45:08,739 --> 00:45:06,289
transmit anything that might indicate

1099
00:45:10,839 --> 00:45:08,749
any kind of a weapon scape any members

1100
00:45:13,630 --> 00:45:10,849
of the mall said hang an atoll in Tonga

1101
00:45:15,759 --> 00:45:13,640
I haven't met any whether they're there

1102
00:45:17,319 --> 00:45:15,769
or not okay we'll have to wait maybe

1103
00:45:19,329 --> 00:45:17,329
that maybe maybe they visit our Springs

1104
00:45:21,339 --> 00:45:19,339
and congratulations on getting a TV

1105
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:21,349
series about Pine Gap which you've

1106
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:23,210
described as a geopolitical thriller so

1107
00:45:28,359 --> 00:45:24,729
it's like an episode of Columbo is it

1108
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:28,369
pathetical love though if some guy comes

1109
00:45:32,019 --> 00:45:30,170
and goes one more thing at the end and

1110
00:45:33,309 --> 00:45:32,029
if Columbia had satellites that would

1111
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,319
that that's that that's what that story

1112
00:45:36,609 --> 00:45:35,359
would be okay and one more time what's

1113
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:36,619
your favorite website we should go and

1114
00:45:40,329 --> 00:45:38,390
read some stuff that we can even learn

1115
00:45:41,620 --> 00:45:40,339
as much as is in this book is pretty

1116
00:45:44,109 --> 00:45:41,630
good business somewhere else that you

1117
00:45:45,579 --> 00:45:44,119
could like you know the confessions of

1118
00:45:47,950 --> 00:45:45,589
an economic hitman would you recommend

1119
00:45:49,359 --> 00:45:47,960
that book I haven't read that one but I

1120
00:45:50,829 --> 00:45:49,369
heard it was pretty good so I do

1121
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:50,839
recommend it but but if you do want to

1122
00:45:55,509 --> 00:45:52,400
know more about Pine Gap my website is

1123
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:55,519
Pine Gap book.com go there Thank You

1124
00:45:56,829 --> 00:45:56,630
Devereaux's we're getting good luck with

1125
00:46:02,420 --> 00:45:56,839
it

1126
00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:05,010
so how's this go as far as a book launch

1127
00:46:10,410 --> 00:46:06,670
goes is this a good crowd for book

1128
00:46:12,089 --> 00:46:10,420
launch yeah it is to go turnout everyone

1129
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:12,099
seemed very interested and the questions

1130
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:14,170
were not as challenging as I would have

1131
00:46:18,299 --> 00:46:16,270
expected given the dynamic nature of the

1132
00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:18,309
topic and I thought people to go food

1133
00:46:21,660 --> 00:46:19,900
porn gap there was none of that going on

1134
00:46:23,250 --> 00:46:21,670
no I guess the people that would have

1135
00:46:26,579 --> 00:46:23,260
read the book and supported the author

1136
00:46:29,309 --> 00:46:26,589
would be fairly you know to the benefits

1137
00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:29,319
of because here it better red than dead

1138
00:46:32,849 --> 00:46:31,390
is it like man it's like a lot of people

1139
00:46:35,069 --> 00:46:32,859
think it's an uphill push to sell books

1140
00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:35,079
these days but not know it depends

1141
00:46:39,089 --> 00:46:37,270
doesn't it especially I think the way to

1142
00:46:41,130 --> 00:46:39,099
go is engaging with the community so a

1143
00:46:43,529 --> 00:46:41,140
bookstore has a book club on tonight an

1144
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:43,539
external event one in here high teas

1145
00:46:48,420 --> 00:46:45,910
authors and book launches and I think

1146
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:48,430
that kind of if you engage the community

1147
00:46:51,450 --> 00:46:49,690
in different literary events I think it

1148
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:51,460
makes books more more of a feature as

1149
00:46:56,430 --> 00:46:54,130
part of a societal aspect rather than

1150
00:46:57,930 --> 00:46:56,440
just a one-off you know so what's it

1151
00:47:00,539 --> 00:46:57,940
like when there's a poetry night he does

1152
00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:00,549
get a bit bare a wearing does it well

1153
00:47:05,849 --> 00:47:04,630
berries I run the French literature yo

1154
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:05,859
you gotta come with the baguettes and

1155
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:08,319
the whole caboodle Aaron's poodle so you

1156
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:12,010
know Wow so if you have a French poetry

1157
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:14,170
night that must be insane I'll put it to

1158
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:16,000
the the guy that runs our unspoken words

1159
00:47:20,460 --> 00:47:17,890
poetry group ever and back and see if

1160
00:47:22,109 --> 00:47:20,470
far they might wanna do a collab done a

1161
00:47:23,250 --> 00:47:22,119
good job he ready to see so many people

1162
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:23,260
he could actually use the bigger space

1163
00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:25,150
good year well sometimes yeah we

1164
00:47:28,019 --> 00:47:26,200
consider having the mezzanine level

1165
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:28,029
taking the books off the cooking section

1166
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:29,010
and

1167
00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:33,450
or go books no thank you very much I'm

1168
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:34,950
talking with the only person who had an

1169
00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:36,990
eBay coupe we've got here Dennis right

1170
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:39,480
but and and Dennis are you you wouldn't

1171
00:47:43,010 --> 00:47:41,490
be a big fan of Pine Gap or you think

1172
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:43,020
it's a necessary evil what do you think

1173
00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:45,510
no I'm a big fan of David and I'm gonna

1174
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:47,070
look forward to reading the book I think

1175
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:49,050
that yes we do need to have some levels

1176
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:51,240
of surveillance it's a shame when these

1177
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,210
surveillance don't actually do their job

1178
00:47:59,420 --> 00:47:56,640
and we have the instances night 911

1179
00:48:01,160 --> 00:47:59,430
leading to Wars which continue on today

1180
00:48:03,230 --> 00:48:01,170
what's a free kick what's a great

1181
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:03,240
website where you think we can learn it

1182
00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:04,530
with sing stuff and go to is there one

1183
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:11,790
that your favorite The Guardian I'm

1184
00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:13,590
talking to someone who worked with David

1185
00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:15,590
what was what does he like to work with

1186
00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:18,420
he was a disabled make up no he was a

1187
00:48:21,740 --> 00:48:21,270
disembodied voice on my headphones oh

1188
00:48:25,220 --> 00:48:21,750
really

1189
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:25,230
he'd go wake up mate no no I mean I

1190
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,850
would just hear him occasionally when he

1191
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:29,760
when he punched on oh I would hear him

1192
00:48:34,580 --> 00:48:33,359
in the headphones but I wouldn't know at

1193
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:34,590
the beginning when I started working

1194
00:48:39,260 --> 00:48:37,410
there who this guy was and so when you

1195
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,270
would go home working at Alice Springs

1196
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:41,280
at Pine Gap wouldn't you be kind of

1197
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,690
taking the work home with you and

1198
00:48:47,180 --> 00:48:44,400
thinking about things at night or could

1199
00:48:49,099 --> 00:48:47,190
you turn off easily from it that was a

1200
00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:49,109
good part about it shift work you can

1201
00:48:52,030 --> 00:48:50,430
just switch off because you've handed

1202
00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:52,040
off to somebody else

1203
00:48:56,020 --> 00:48:54,590
there enough that that's cool and I was

1204
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:56,030
asking you earlier is it like being in

1205
00:48:59,500 --> 00:48:57,890
combat where there's a lot of boredom

1206
00:49:01,300 --> 00:48:59,510
and then intense bits but you said

1207
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,310
there's intense but to go on for hours

1208
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:04,160
sometimes no it's uh it was just

1209
00:49:10,090 --> 00:49:05,810
interesting the whole time there was

1210
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:10,100
just it was just ongoing the days went

1211
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:13,150
very quickly so you had tasks to do and

1212
00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:16,970
that they just disappeared or the night

1213
00:49:22,180 --> 00:49:19,790
disappeared and what's it like living in

1214
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:22,190
Alice anyway I was really good

1215
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:25,910
I've been Telus before I didn't I

1216
00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:28,610
thought it was a boring town when I went

1217
00:49:32,410 --> 00:49:30,260
there the first time because I wasn't

1218
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:32,420
working anywhere else just tourists but

1219
00:49:37,330 --> 00:49:34,130
when I started working we made friends

1220
00:49:39,220 --> 00:49:37,340
straight away the induction that I had

1221
00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:39,230
at Pine Gap I made instant friends and

1222
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:44,150
then from that paid heaps of sport heaps

1223
00:49:49,570 --> 00:49:46,970
of friends so it was good it was it was

1224
00:49:51,820 --> 00:49:49,580
a lot of camaraderie we went out in the

1225
00:49:54,580 --> 00:49:51,830
desert we had bonfires together as a

1226
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:54,590
crew it was really good I'll let you say

1227
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:16,250
[Music]

1228
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:18,750
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1229
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:22,380
zone and as this show goes out to air

1230
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:24,130
the air

1231
00:50:30,060 --> 00:50:26,650
the Internet's the web the world wide

1232
00:50:31,980 --> 00:50:30,070
web in your ears right now in Las Vegas

1233
00:50:33,420 --> 00:50:31,990
it's psych on the committee for

1234
00:50:35,850 --> 00:50:33,430
skeptical inquiry are having their

1235
00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:35,860
annual convention am so sorry friends

1236
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:38,470
and and colleagues I can't be there this

1237
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:41,410
year I love going to cycle had a blast

1238
00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:44,170
last year was lots of fun I hope it's a

1239
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:46,540
big success I'm very sorry to have

1240
00:50:51,570 --> 00:50:48,850
missed it this year it just came a

1241
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:51,580
little bit too close timewise butted

1242
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:56,400
against skeptic on here in Sydney and

1243
00:51:01,410 --> 00:50:59,290
jet lag is not my friend so I didn't

1244
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:01,420
feel I could go there and be on my game

1245
00:51:07,470 --> 00:51:04,090
next year and in fact next year I've

1246
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:07,480
been asked to go to Dragon Con in

1247
00:51:13,350 --> 00:51:11,050
Atlanta Georgia who knows I'd love to do

1248
00:51:16,740 --> 00:51:13,360
that's been many years since I've been

1249
00:51:19,230 --> 00:51:16,750
there my ever lasting thanks to the

1250
00:51:21,390 --> 00:51:19,240
people who subscribe to the skeptics

1251
00:51:25,170 --> 00:51:21,400
owned by patreon or PayPal at skeptic

1252
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:25,180
zone TV and owing to your generosity

1253
00:51:32,730 --> 00:51:30,070
I've just in the last week purchased

1254
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:32,740
another piece of equipment some of you

1255
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:34,720
may be familiar with the zoom range of

1256
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:37,770
microphones I've purchased a zoom h6

1257
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:42,250
which is a nice bit of kit which allows

1258
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:44,770
me to have multiple microphone inputs

1259
00:51:50,670 --> 00:51:47,920
and record from lots of sources so I'll

1260
00:51:53,340 --> 00:51:50,680
be using that for more interviews and so

1261
00:51:55,770 --> 00:51:53,350
forth but the only reason I can do this

1262
00:51:58,890 --> 00:51:55,780
and supply equipment to my reporters and

1263
00:52:01,320 --> 00:51:58,900
pay for things and their behalf from

1264
00:52:04,940 --> 00:52:01,330
time to time is because of your

1265
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:04,950
generosity and if there was nobody

1266
00:52:11,340 --> 00:52:07,900
chipping in to the show even if it's

1267
00:52:14,190 --> 00:52:11,350
just $5 a month from patreon there would

1268
00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:14,200
be no skeptic zone but I encourage you

1269
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:15,550
all especially those people listening in

1270
00:52:18,990 --> 00:52:17,410
the United States because the dollar is

1271
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:19,000
really strong against the Australian

1272
00:52:23,130 --> 00:52:22,690
dollar to sign up with patreon $5 a

1273
00:52:27,269 --> 00:52:23,140
month

1274
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:27,279
is such a small thing to ask really

1275
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:30,130
if enough people do it then it means a

1276
00:52:33,779 --> 00:52:33,249
lot here at the skeptic zone but for

1277
00:52:35,729 --> 00:52:33,789
this week

1278
00:52:40,969 --> 00:52:35,739
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1279
00:52:47,179 --> 00:52:43,499
you've been listening to the skeptic

1280
00:52:52,620 --> 00:52:47,189
zone podcast please visit our website at

1281
00:52:55,169 --> 00:52:52,630
WWDC be honest contacts and to access

1282
00:52:58,769 --> 00:52:55,179
the bat catalog of episodes going back

1283
00:53:02,429 --> 00:52:58,779
to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone

1284
00:53:04,829 --> 00:53:02,439
podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit

1285
00:53:08,189 --> 00:53:04,839
our facebook page or leave a review on

1286
00:53:11,549 --> 00:53:08,199
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1287
00:53:13,919 --> 00:53:11,559
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1288
00:53:15,870 --> 00:53:13,929
zone podcast is an independent

1289
00:53:18,059 --> 00:53:15,880
production reviews and opinions

1290
00:53:20,219 --> 00:53:18,069
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1291
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:20,229
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1292
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:23,160
or any other skeptical organization

1293
00:53:37,650 --> 00:53:36,630
it's hard to believe the conventions

1294
00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:37,660
over but I'm here

1295
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:40,390
back here at Madame frou frou and yes

1296
00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:43,930
hello crooner hi Richard I know she

1297
00:53:49,290 --> 00:53:47,740
knows what's coming here we go on this

1298
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:49,300
lovely County you've just cleaned up got

1299
00:53:55,650 --> 00:53:51,609
the UH the dice ready to go whoa

1300
00:53:58,349 --> 00:53:55,660
where did you roll it for us please I

1301
00:54:03,109 --> 00:53:58,359
know you have to roll it oh it's pretty

1302
00:54:07,819 --> 00:54:03,119
good there for you to roll no she's just

1303
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:07,829
shaking it in there

1304
00:54:13,740 --> 00:54:11,650
lucky number four lucky number four okay

1305
00:54:16,310 --> 00:54:13,750
one more time she's rolling it around in

1306
00:54:25,620 --> 00:54:24,060
it's one again one so four one yep and

1307
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:25,630
roll it around this is last one folks

1308
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:31,450
for one end and four again thank you